User talk:Toughpigs
Buddy and Jim The internet never ceases to astound me, as it does here. Andrew Leal (talk) 00:52, 19 July 2006 (UTC) :How very odd. I don't think I'm ready to see Buddy in tribal makeup. -- Danny (talk) 01:25, 19 July 2006 (UTC) Community Portal Hey Danny, I just wanted to leave you a quick message to let you know that I've been active again on the wiki. I added my name to the community portal. I hope that's all right. Scotty J. 22:29, 18 July 2006 (UTC) :Well, now that I think about it, I should have let a site adminstrator take care of that. I took it down which as I type this seems ridiculous if it goes back up again but for the sake of not wearing out my welcome I'll go with a little ridiculousness Sorry for that breach of wiki etiquette.Scotty J. 22:35, 18 July 2006 (UTC) ::Of course that's alright! I didn't know you'd taken yourself off. -- Scott (talk) 22:36, 18 July 2006 (UTC) :::Aw, sweetie, of course you should be on the portal, and I'm thrilled that you're active again. I must have taken you off in a fit of despair when I thought you would never come back again. -- Danny (talk) 22:48, 18 July 2006 (UTC) ::::You guys are too cool. Thanks for the welcome and encouragement. I can take too much credit for the formatting I've been doing as I'm following Scott's design from the We Are All Earthlings cassette. Anyway, I hope to work on album image consistency as well but that's another talk page. Thanks again. It's good to be back! Scotty J. 00:31, 19 July 2006 (UTC) Connections An evening of Lego building, pasta, and Car 54, Where Are You has improved my feelings towards life (and I should probably apologize to Nick for the cranky message, but he hasn't even noticed ityet, so). But out of curiosity, re soap operas connections removal, is that a new rule, that only show regulars count, or just with soaps because of page length? Andrew Leal (talk) 04:51, 18 July 2006 (UTC) :I dunno, I'm just trying it out. It occurred to me, when adding Larry Block to the soaps list, that it's actually kind of cooler just to have the people on that list who are real Muppet/Henson cast. I don't know if I would apply that to everything, but I like the way it looks on that page. Do you have an opinion about which way you like better? -- Danny (talk) 05:11, 18 July 2006 (UTC) ::Well, one opinion is that means saying goodbye to most of P.G. Wodehouse and a good portion of Batman and Superman, and of the three on 1776, pares it down to Stuart Pankin. Andrew Leal (talk) 05:17, 18 July 2006 (UTC) :::Looking at it again, it would only wipe out six on Wodehouse (depending on whether Joan Sanderson is considered "featured"), but just about *everyone* on Batman, which includes a lot of Dinosaurs guest voices, and depending on whether you deem "Goblin 2" guys like Kerry Shale or Peter Marinker significant. Leaving Michael Caine, Barry Dennen, Rutger Hauer, Rino Romano (maybe), possibly Paul Williams on the strength of being a Muppet composer, and Art Carney (safe because of The Great Santa Claus Switch, I'd hope). Andrew Leal (talk) 05:25, 18 July 2006 (UTC) ::::Well, here's the thing. I was adding connections for Miami Vice last night, and I was absolutely tickled to find that Belinda Montgomery (Hey Cinderella) played Don Johnson's wife. I also found Austin Pendleton, Larry Block and Sam McMurray -- a small but interesting list. ::::But then there's also more than a dozen people who have guest starred with the Muppets -- apparently everybody was on Miami Vice -- John Leguizamo, Penn Jillette, Little Richard, David Johansen, Nathan Lane, Liam Neeson, Annette Bening, John Matuszak -- I could go on, there's tons more. And that would just totally overwhelm the four people who actually played real parts in Muppet projects. ::::Although, I have to say, that list of guest stars and celebs is kind of interesting too. Maybe instead of taking those people out, we could just split up the list into people who have played parts vs. celebrity guest stars. ::::I'm also revising my thoughts on "featured" roles. I'm thinking that the distinction could be between people who played parts that aren't themselves vs. people who appeared as celebrities. So on the Soap operas list, that would include Paul Bartel and Paul Leyden back in the first list, and Mark Hamill and Penn Jillette on the celebrity list. What do you think? -- Danny (talk) 13:16, 18 July 2006 (UTC) :::::I like that idea. I don't want to lose all thos neat connections, but I agree, a pure cast member list is fun. I tried it out on The Cosby Show (including a couple Creature Shop guest voices but mostly just main cast members). Andrew Leal (talk) 15:57, 18 July 2006 (UTC) ::::::Whoah, you guys scared me for a minute with all your covert planning. But it looks like you came to a solution I agree with. Splitting them up into two seperate lists sounds good to me, too. -- Scott (talk) 22:47, 18 July 2006 (UTC) :::::::Sweet, I like it. I don't know if it needs to be two separate headings, but I like the split list. The Cosby list is fun! -- Danny (talk) 22:50, 18 July 2006 (UTC) :::::::::Yeah, you're right. I kept one heading, but seperated the lists with intro text, like Scott did with his cast lists on Wonder Woman and DC Comics (and did some further heading division to keep the "Cliff's Nightmare" parts more clearly distinct from the connections/references in general). I'm liking it this way, but I'd suggest only using it on longer lists or where there's a significant number to go in either group. 1776 is so tiny right now it doesn't need to be broken up (same probably goes for pages like The Proud Family), and the larger Star Trek list is almost exclusively celebrity cameos or Dinosaur voices (though Frank Welker could and should be added, having dubbed Spock's screams in the third movie). Andrew Leal (talk) 23:13, 18 July 2006 (UTC) :::::::::Now, that is perfection. Does that mean I have to make a Miami Vice list? -- Danny (talk) 23:15, 18 July 2006 (UTC) :::::::::By the way, one of the fun things about the Connections lists is that whenever I see a name I don't recognize, I say, who the heck is that? And then I click on it and say, ohhhh, of course, the guy who did the voice for the Left Door Knocker in Labyrinth. Which is awesome. -- Danny (talk) 23:16, 18 July 2006 (UTC) Here's a question: What's the difference between Austin Pendleton and Dizzy Gillespie? Pendleton was credited as having played a character in The Muppet Movie, but Gillespie gets more relative screentime when he was featured on The Muppet Show. How are we making the distinction of who goes where on the split lists? -- Scott (talk) 23:21, 18 July 2006 (UTC) :I can't believe you're disrespecting Max like that. But the distinction is that the first list is for people who played parts in Henson productions; the second list is for celebrities who played themselves. Screen time doesn't matter -- even a bit part in a production, like the voice of the Left Door Knocker, is enough. -- Danny (talk) 23:33, 18 July 2006 (UTC) :I'd typed up a long response, but Danny already explained most of it. I redid the Superman list , so Richard Pryor stays in the main list since he played a balloon seller, while Loretta Swit just played herself. It sound more complicated than it is (and it's worth checking on a few, in case I accidentally moved someone who played themselves *and* a character role), but it works. For the moment, I'm not really counting Ben Stein and Fred Willard as character roles, mainly because I haven't seen their Muppets Tonight cameos and their pages seem a little unclear, so feel free to move them. Andrew Leal (talk) 23:36, 18 July 2006 (UTC) Ay Ay! Would it be too rude to delete International Bert? Nick created it, and while I'm struggling on dial-up too access article databases to beef up Goelz and Frank Oz, I really don't want to worry about that page right now. As is, it's a mess, missing a bunch of info and formatting which I have in Word, waiting until I can upload more than one actor image. Andrew Leal (talk) 20:25, 17 July 2006 (UTC) :Is it okay to leave it? We're always trying to encourage people to add to pages bit by bit; I've said to many people that they should just go ahead and slap information on a page, and other people will fix it later. That makes for some temporarily messy pages, but it also means that more people contribute, because they don't feel like they have to make everything perfect before they hit "save page". The International Bert page is incomplete, but it's sincere and was created in good faith. :So, I know, all four of us have a Superman complex, and it's annoying to think, "Somewhere on the wiki, a page is crying out for my help!" and not have the time to work on it right now. Just put it on your To-Do List and try to forget about it. In my opinion, you not having the time to fix it isn't a good enough reason to delete a decent first draft. -- Danny (talk) 20:39, 17 July 2006 (UTC) ::Can you at least add an attention tag? Nick just copied the stuff from Bert. It's not formatted at all, apart from tossing in Macias, and I'm not even sure how much of it is accurate. But yeah, I guess I've become picky. I like to wait to create a page like that until I have time to format it properly and add what needs to be in there. I at least hope he waits on International Oscar or heaven forbid, International Guy Smiley. Andrew Leal (talk) 20:44, 17 July 2006 (UTC) :::I think you're letting your anxiety run away a little bit. It's okay if he works on the International pages for a little bit. You'll have time to fix it later. Meanwhile, I don't think a lot of people are going to show up today, look at the International Bert page, and decide that the wiki is run by a bunch of chumps. Nobody will notice it until you have time to mess with it. -- Danny (talk) 20:47, 17 July 2006 (UTC) ::::Yeah, you're right. I think I've just over-wikied, compensating for the week of Muppet depravation. I should get off, get dressed, and do something. In the meantime, take a look at Frank Oz. It's a start, and I've got some print interviews and stuff to incorporate, but I'd like to know your thoughts on profanity, to asterisk or not to asterisk. I'm a prude, and so far, expletives have mostly been limited to rare talk page outbursts, making the Wiki family friendly. But you can't quote Frank without indicating the fact that he swears like a sailor. Andrew Leal (talk) 21:10, 17 July 2006 (UTC) :::::Oh, I would never encourage anybody to get off the wiki and go get dressed. How hypocritical would that be? My feelings on profanity are not to asterisk. Obviously, we wouldn't swear in article text that we write, but if there's a swear in the quote, then leave it in. Frank Oz is a big boy, and in my opinion, we don't need to censor him. -- Danny (talk) 21:14, 17 July 2006 (UTC) ::::::As an editor on the "conventional" Wikipedia, I consider their policy on profanity reasonable enough. On one hand, an article shouldn't use profanity unless it (a) deals with taboo language (including topics such as a book with a swearword in its title), or (b) needs to use a direct quotation with profanity in it. On the other hand, when profanity is appropriate in an article it should be written out in full (unless a directly quoted source has already censored the words). ::::::For example--imagine that I have seen an interview with Frank Oz on a cable station which doesn't bleep swearwords. Frank makes the following remark during that interview: "'Trash Gordon' doesn't mean shit as an in-joke these days, not even to parents who watch along with their kids." I might cite the interview this way in a Wiki article: ::::::"Frank Oz has objected to the 'Trash Gordon' endings on Sesame Street, claiming that the allusion to Flash Gordon 'doesn't mean shit...these days, even to parents who watch along with their kids'." ::::::If I had heard about the interview in a local newspaper which censors most profanity, I would follow that paper's policy--perhaps writing that the allusion "doesn't mean expletive", and adding a footnote that the original news story censored a word. --ISNorden 22:54, 17 July 2006 (UTC) Performer Breakdowns Thanks for your post on Current events. I wanted to go ahead and mention it, but wasn't sure how best to break it down so as not to seem too daunting. That works. Andrew Leal (talk) 17:42, 17 July 2006 (UTC) Pssst We spoke too soon about there being no slowdowns lately. Shh, don't tell anyone. PS: Who is Lieutenant Powers? -- Scott (talk) 01:51, 17 July 2006 (UTC) :I dunno. We haven't asked him his name yet. -- Danny (talk) 01:53, 17 July 2006 (UTC) ::Actually, we have, in the original welcome message, and I think somewhere else in passing. He just hasn't told us. I'll ask again. Andrew Leal (talk) 02:17, 17 July 2006 (UTC) Wow Just so you know, as of this moment, we've hit 10,000 articles. Andrew Leal (talk) 23:17, 15 July 2006 (UTC) :I checked, Wookieepedia has 35,029 articles at present. So we're a little less than a third they're size, but still, wow. Andrew Leal (talk) 23:25, 15 July 2006 (UTC) :: Heh, article count isn't everything though. =) We have a lot of articles, but a good number of them are very short stubs. Still, just having all those articles is great. =) LtPowers 01:44, 17 July 2006 (UTC) :::Well, dude, feel free to jump in and help. For the last month, all you've done is vote for Main Page pictures. -- Danny (talk) 02:37, 17 July 2006 (UTC) Danny's talk archive *Muppet Wiki Talk Archives